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balrog
New/Lurker



3 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2009 :  03:21:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is an analogy that I find rather interesting:

Suppose you hear a performance of a Mozart sonata by a world class pianist. It is true that any talented piano player would be able to learn to play a Mozart sonata fairly well (or at least get through the notes) in a few months or so, but it would be ridiculous to claim that the beginner would be just as good as the professional musician.

I have spent thousands of hours playing piano, and I know that it would be a lot easier for me to post a video of me playing an etude by Chopin, Liszt or Alkan than to perform a (technically) simply piece in front of a live audience.

I have a question for some of you juggling performers:
Suppose Chriss Bliss had never made his act and you were considering a similar act. Suppose you were also considering posting a youtube video like Jason Garfield's with the same performance, but with five balls, taped over several days with lots of editing. Which would present the greatest challenge to you?

When I first started to listen to piano recordings, I generally believed that the one who played the fastest, was also the better pianist. It was not until years later that I discovered just how wrong I was.
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balrog
New/Lurker



3 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2009 :  04:16:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evanp

Sorry Dave Altman for mis-using the word Novice. But my whole point is that Chris Bliss skills are attainable by anyone. People such as Anthony Gatto and Vova have real talents that few can achive. Here is a link supporting my opion in why Chris Bliss is not a good juggler. The funny thing is that I have heard so many internet rumors about Chris Bliss not being able to juggle 5 balls.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Evan



The claim that the skills of Chris Bliss are attainable by anyone is unsubstantiated. A similar claim could be that Jason Garfield's skills are attainable by anyone. People can learn a lot by practice alone. Even a tone deaf person with no sense of rythm could learn to play piano very fast (many notes per second) with enough practice. But it would not be music. I believe juggling is quite similar.
The fact that a beginner can quickly pick up a few three ball tricks does not imply that Chris Bliss is not a great juggler.

Also, the rumor that Chris Bliss is unable to juggle 5 balls is absurd. Doing a few tricks with five or even seven balls is so much easier than having nailed a three ball routine to perfection, and be able to perform it night after night never dropping a ball.
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Sondre
Level 5



Norway
3549 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2009 :  08:32:41  Show Profile  Visit Sondre's Homepage  Send Sondre an AOL message  Click to see Sondre's MSN Messenger address  Send Sondre a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evanp

Thanks Sondre for that Lovely post. On the Other hand this argument is getting to out of hand. I really don't think we are going to convince each other! Okay Mark Lets shake hands and move on with our life. By the way I am pretty new to the juggling world but feel that I have lots of knowledge of juggling.

Evan



You're welcome. I appreciate it too when people help me out with reasonable arguments, so I figured I'd give you a hand.


Sondre
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Mark Kolbusz
Level 5



USA
2076 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2009 :  20:53:45  Show Profile  Visit Mark Kolbusz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, I was not going to say this, but...none of these jugglers belong on this list...they are all white;)



T.B.M.
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Ville
Level 3



Finland
501 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  02:29:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarkyMark

Well, I was not going to say this, but...none of these jugglers belong on this list...they are all white;)



*Bu-du-dum TISCH*

Live, learn and juggle
Oh me got six cookies, and boy me feelin grand!
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Evan Patterson
Level 2



USA
357 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  08:17:50  Show Profile Send Evan Patterson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mark your reccently posted vedio on youtube was Great! That head-bounce ball was amazing! Where do you get a head-bounce ball like that from?

Evan

Edited by - Evan Patterson on 02/28/2009 08:19:35
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Dave Altman
Administrator



Georgia
621 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  09:38:27  Show Profile  Visit Dave Altman's Homepage Send Dave Altman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarkyMark

Well, I was not going to say this, but...none of these jugglers belong on this list...they are all white;)
T.B.M.

That does bring up an interesting question, Mark, "Who is the best technical juggler that is black or some other minority? Excluding any Asian diabolists, because that isn't juggling, per se, and they aren't a real minority. There are more Asians on the planet than any other race.

It would be a rather short list, but Daryl Sims, from Atlanta would be on the list. There is another Atlanta juggler named Keith* that is a good juggler, but he probably shouldn't be considered a technical juggler. ManiacDrew is also pretty good with canes, but he's not particularly technical, he's good, but not great.
____________________
*I don't know his last name, but I could find out.


"Bamboozled" ~Dave Altman
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Mark Kolbusz
Level 5



USA
2076 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  10:03:28  Show Profile  Visit Mark Kolbusz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is a guy named Tony Flowers that lives here in Chicago that is pretty good...he has been around a long long time, maybe some of you know him



T.B.M.
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Mark Kolbusz
Level 5



USA
2076 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  10:21:15  Show Profile  Visit Mark Kolbusz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evanp

Mark your reccently posted vedio on youtube was Great! That head-bounce ball was amazing! Where do you get a head-bounce ball like that from?

Evan


Evan, change your settings on here so you can receive private messages



T.B.M.
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Evan Patterson
Level 2



USA
357 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  12:27:09  Show Profile Send Evan Patterson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I might change my setting, if you agree not to trash talk about me!

Evan
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Sondre
Level 5



Norway
3549 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  12:42:01  Show Profile  Visit Sondre's Homepage  Send Sondre an AOL message  Click to see Sondre's MSN Messenger address  Send Sondre a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Altman

quote:
Originally posted by MarkyMark

Well, I was not going to say this, but...none of these jugglers belong on this list...they are all white;)
T.B.M.

That does bring up an interesting question, Mark, "Who is the best technical juggler that is black or some other minority? Excluding any Asian diabolists, because that isn't juggling, per se, and they aren't a real minority. There are more Asians on the planet than any other race.

It would be a rather short list, but Daryl Sims, from Atlanta would be on the list. There is another Atlanta juggler named Keith* that is a good juggler, but he probably shouldn't be considered a technical juggler. ManiacDrew is also pretty good with canes, but he's not particularly technical, he's good, but not great.
____________________
*I don't know his last name, but I could find out.


"Bamboozled" ~Dave Altman




Does Daryl still juggle? I saw those old shots that John Nations made back in... 1995 or something - but I thought he was "gone".

Is a black guy from Africa eligible to be on the list? If so I want to name Alvaro Palominos. He's from Argentina I think, but still he's not "white" as far as I remember... and Arash Farhang, whose parents are from Iran, is getting pretty good now. If you're wondering, he can do 5 rings with a headbounce pretty well, so he's not just a siteswapper! He lives in Utah, so he's a minority I guess.

But are black people really a minority? Aren't they like... many? In Africa for instance?


Sondre
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Mark Kolbusz
Level 5



USA
2076 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  13:30:22  Show Profile  Visit Mark Kolbusz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evanp

I might change my setting, if you agree not to trash talk about me!

Evan


We made a truce, dont worry...send me a private messago when you change your settings.



T.B.M.
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kamibaka
Level 3



Sweden
560 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  15:53:53  Show Profile  Visit kamibaka's Homepage Send kamibaka a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sondre
Is a black guy from Africa eligible to be on the list? If so I want to name Alvaro Palominos. He's from Argentina I think, but still he's not "white" as far as I remember...


Looks plenty white to me:
You must be logged in to see this link.

Oh, by the way he's from Chile (the stupidly long and narrow country).
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Mark Kolbusz
Level 5



USA
2076 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2009 :  16:20:55  Show Profile  Visit Mark Kolbusz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kamibaka

quote:
Originally posted by Sondre
Is a black guy from Africa eligible to be on the list? If so I want to name Alvaro Palominos. He's from Argentina I think, but still he's not "white" as far as I remember...


Looks plenty white to me:
You must be logged in to see this link.

Oh, by the way he's from Chile (the stupidly long and narrow country).



Maybe we need to make a poll about this one called "Do you think Alvaro Palominos is black or white?"



T.B.M.
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Evan Patterson
Level 2



USA
357 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2009 :  13:44:42  Show Profile Send Evan Patterson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is interesting, I can't think of any juggler that is not white. Are there any Black people on this forum?

Evan
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