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norbi
Level 4



Canada
1440 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2007 :  18:59:53  Show Profile  Visit norbi's Homepage Send norbi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beautifully perfect jugglers! I also love the way Jian Wen holds the rings, fantastic! I saw another video a few years ago of them, in which Wen did a millimeter perfect 7up 360. Just threw them all up, turned around and seemed to have about an hour just hanging around for these perfectly accurate high throws to come down. I'm pretty sure he did a 10 ring flash in that video too, with his crazy mouth holster :-p
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ChrisFowler
Level 4



USA
1438 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2007 :  19:09:57  Show Profile  Visit ChrisFowler's Homepage  Send ChrisFowler an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Norbi-I've seen the video you're talking about, and you're absolutely correct.

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Yup, I'm back.
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Emman
Level 2



Canada
153 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2007 :  20:28:46  Show Profile  Click to see Emman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I hope one day I can see those legendary videos.
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isaac
Level 3



USA
547 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2007 :  22:38:09  Show Profile  Click to see isaac's MSN Messenger address Send isaac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's another performance by the Qian's: You must be logged in to see this link.

Now in color!

Also, an 8 badmitton racket flash by Jen Ping(?): You must be logged in to see this link.

Edited by - isaac on 10/25/2007 22:42:42
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eyesonly
Level 2

United Kingdom
367 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  06:01:45  Show Profile Send eyesonly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuchaMuggle

That amazing badminton racquet juggler's name is Jen Ping. His name is "Chian Jen Ping." I refuse to spell it with a Q as in "Qian" because
1. English does not use Qs without 'u's after.
2. If we did, we would still pronounce it "kian" in that case, which is wrong.
3. The original language is Chinese which has no Q OR U anyway, so why transliterate it so idiotically?
4. I know these guys, three brothers from Nanjing. Jen Wa is the ring spinner, and can do 3 on each arm, 4 on a mouthstick and 2 or more on one leg standing on Ping's head. Jen Wen is a ring juggling specialist. He performed 9 and sometimes 10 rings in their run at Big Apple Circus. He once told me he could do 7 rings for 10 minutes "no problem." Jen Ping, the racket guy, has done over 100 catches of 5 racquet backcrosses and over 50 catches of 7 racquets. He has also flashed 8 racquets.

The three brothers perform an 18 ring line perfectly every show with Ping collecting all the rings as finale.

John



The use of 'Q' in the romanisation of the Chinese langauge does seem very strange to English speakers, until you study Chinese, then you see it makes sense, trust me.

Richard
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juggle12
Level 2



USA
224 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  09:51:47  Show Profile  Visit juggle12's Homepage  Click to see juggle12's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
BTW, you would not believe how heavy their rings are. You think the kind we use are brutal, theirs are deadly.

-S Sorensen
"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."
- Albert Einstein
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Kasetta
Level 2



Italy
450 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  08:27:21  Show Profile  Visit Kasetta's Homepage  Send Kasetta an ICQ Message  Click to see Kasetta's MSN Messenger address Send Kasetta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anthonygatto

What's more amazing is that some of you are just now discovering this artist.


Anthony i did know the Qian brothers, and i think many of us did...

But this video is new for me, i've just seen 1 clip of these artists: this one

You must be logged in to see this link.

too few to understand their abilities!

Thanks to who posted this new clip...


memento gaudere semper

Daniele Caselli
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coohandluke
Level 2

172 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  23:43:11  Show Profile  Send coohandluke an ICQ Message  Send coohandluke a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Altman

quote:
Originally posted by anthonygatto

What's more amazing is that some of you are just now discovering this artist.

I had a house guest that has been juggling for five years and she is pretty good, but I was surprised that she had never even seen a clip of Francis Brunn's before! I thought all young jugglers were watching every single video they can view on line, and were human sponge-bob square pants, but evidently, that isn't the case. Some do, some don't. I guess many of them just watch videos done by their friends and that's it, anything that is old or in black and white "forget about it."


"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something." ~ Plato




I wish I had time to watch ANY videos like you all apparently do.

I don't think it's fair to call it ignorance(in most cases), it's not like young jugglers are going to juggling school and taking Juggling History class along with their Juggling Technique course. SURE I prefer some of the older stuff to the new, but it seems all the old artists are hidden underneath the mega-piles of new trash videos that come out daily... and now I must go to bed...


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Rancid3000
Level 1



44 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  00:48:22  Show Profile  Send Rancid3000 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anthonygatto

quote:

I thought all young jugglers were watching every single video they can view on line, and were human sponge-bob square pants, but evidently, that isn't the case



Unfortunately not Dave. The youngsters like to talk as if they know everything and everyone there is to know about juggling. This delusional mind-set has really had a negative impact on juggling. How can one say who is great when they have never seen great? I spoke with a juggler in Europe(which surprised the hell out of me)and he had no idea who Francis Brunn was... and he called himself a juggler. It hit me then how ignorance has taken over the young people in the juggling world.

A.G.



I think it just has to do with where Juggling is currently. Juggling is definitely not what it used to be. Today there are hobbyist jugglers who do not care about performing at all. There are young kids watching YouTube videos of Vova Galchenko and Thomas Dietz and they want to be just like them. People are doing more and more object manipulation. Juggling has also been pushed in the direction of very artistic and in the direction of being a sport.

Francis Brunn, no matter how amazing he is, is still old school. I do agree that you should watch juggling legends to get an idea of how the juggling of today got to where it is. Also, it is tough to beat the professionalism and skill of the older jugglers. Kids do not want to watch old, grainy, black and white clips of jugglers from 50 years ago. They would rather watch Jason Garfield flash 11 balls or Wes Peden's scissor catch or Thomas Dietz string together siteswap after siteswap. Some would rather watch ring manipulation or contact juggling. Some don't care what you do on stage but rather how many points that combo will get you in the WJF. Juggling is a different animal today than it was in the past.

About "great" jugglers. I can tell you there are kids today that will say Vova is better at juggling than Brunn. What is great in one person's eye may not be great in the other. I don't think it should matter who kids look up to in juggling. I'm just happy more and more kids are juggling period. Without the internet juggling would not be where it is today. Here is a prime example. Search Juggling on YouTube and sort it by view count. You will notice Greg Kenedy Juggling in a cone is 3rd, under Ronaldinho and Maradona. Then you have Vova juggling when he was 5, Jason's Chris Bliss Diss, Vova's Fatboy slim video, the Chris Bliss video, a contact juggling video, and then Vova and Olga passing 11 clubs.

I'm very into punk rock and it amazes me when kids today don't know bands like Black Flag, Bad Religion, the Sex Pistols and Lagwagon. They just don't care enough to look into them. They are fine with what they know and what they have access to and what is popular.

My point is that kids do not want to know about Brunn or Rasetelli or May because they are old. They want to be a part of the new movement. Their blatant disregard for the past may not be right, but that's just the way it goes. There's not much we can do about it except send them videos and hope they like them.


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Dave Altman
Administrator



Georgia
621 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  09:43:06  Show Profile  Visit Dave Altman's Homepage Send Dave Altman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rancid3000
quote:
I think it just has to do with where Juggling is currently. Juggling is definitely not what it used to be.
How would you know? If you don't have a clue what juggling was before five years ago?
quote:
Today there are hobbyist jugglers who do not care about performing at all.
Just to let you know, there were hobbyist jugglers that weren't performers, before the WJF, in fact, practically every professional juggler was a hobbyist jugger, first.
quote:
There are young kids watching YouTube videos of Vova Galchenko and Thomas Dietz and they want to be just like them.
Exactly! That is why there are so many little clones doing water-down versions of their skills.
quote:
People are doing more and more object manipulation. Juggling has also been pushed in the direction of very artistic and in the direction of being a sport.

Yes and no, since you don't know what came before five years ago, you may not realize this. It's true that the so-called hobby juggler is far better and learns so much more in a shorter amount of time, but the very top jugglers aren't effected as much. They started young and had coaches then, as well as now, so the Internet hasn't influenced them like young amateur jugglers. Their skill level has increased over the years, but only in small amount, plus Rastelli's skills match up well with any technical juggler that exists today, as well, as people like Bobby May.
quote:
Francis Brunn, no matter how amazing he is, is still old school. I do agree that you should watch juggling legends to get an idea of how the juggling of today got to where it is. Also, it is tough to beat the professionalism and skill of the older jugglers. Kids do not want to watch old, grainy, black and white clips of jugglers from 50 years ago. They would rather watch Jason Garfield flash 11 balls or Wes Peden's scissor catch or Thomas Dietz string together siteswap after siteswap. Some would rather watch ring manipulation or contact juggling. Some don't care what you do on stage but rather how many points that combo will get you in the WJF. Juggling is a different animal today than it was in the past.

If you want to be very one-dimensional, just watch your friends videos, but if you want to get a fuller idea of what juggling can be, watch a balance of your friends videos, today's top jugglers, and historical footage. I would suggest doing that in the reverse order that I gave them. Not all old footage is grainy and bad quality, either. Much of it is much easier to watch and tell what is going on than backyard videos of amateur jugglers shot with amateur equipment and with little to no camera skills. The old footage is shot on stage by professional cameramen with good lighting and well-polished acts. Old-school shouldn't be considered a dirty word or people in that category shouldn't be looked down on and considered inferior. Some were extremely technical and today's jugglers aren't that much better, or maybe not even as good in some ways.
quote:
About "great" jugglers. I can tell you there are kids today that will say Vova is better at juggling than Brunn. What is great in one person's eye may not be great in the other. I don't think it should matter who kids look up to in juggling.
Of course, it matters who you look up to. How can kids judge who is good if they don't watch other jugglers besides WJF ones? You didn't have to tell me that there are kids that think that way. I'm painfully aware of it. Anyone that is seriously into juggling NEEDS to expand their knowledge of past jugglers, period. Kids into baseball know every stat on Babe Ruth and other players of the past, why can't jugglers do the same thing and learn about the activity they are so passionate about? Ignoring past jugglers is like trying to juggle with one eye closed and one arm behind your back. It's a big loss and with the Internet, much more stuff is a click away, unlike when I started juggling. You don't have to watch only old videos, but don't be so narrow-minded, either.
quote:
I'm very into punk rock and it amazes me when kids today don't know bands like Black Flag, Bad Religion, the Sex Pistols and Lagwagon. They just don't care enough to look into them. They are fine with what they know and what they have access to and what is popular.


Well, it sounds like you are beginning to get a clue and are starting to feel out of date. I don't know some of those bands either, because they are after my time and I'm not into that kind of music, but I've listened to some of it well enough to know it's not my style of music. Relatively speaking there is way more music to choose from, than juggling. It's almost possible to watch ALL of the available historical juggling footage, but no one person could ever listen to all of the music available, even in one genre.


[quote]My point is that kids do not want to know about Brunn or Rasetelli or May because they are old. They want to be a part of the new movement. Their blatant disregard for the past may not be right, but that's just the way it goes. There's not much we can do about it except send them videos and hope they like them.
Again, you don't have to tell me how ignorant many jugglers are of the past and I even understand that an appreciation of the past happens when the person has some personal history. People that were in diapers ten to fifteen years ago and most of their lives has been spent living with mommy and daddy, watching cartoons, don't have a sense of history at all. It's not right, even if it's understandable.

I am not going to bother sending anyone videos and hope that they will watch them. I'm willing to do what I'm doing now, which is saying, "If you don't watch old footage of past jugglers, you are and will always be an idiot!" It doesn't take long to see the sameo-sameo stuff in today's videos, so when you still want to learn something, watch some older stuff, I guarantee, you will find some good stuff and plenty of surprises.





"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something." ~ Plato
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Nick Laffey
Level 2



294 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  12:39:38  Show Profile  Send Nick Laffey an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Wait, are you saying that If we don't learn from the greats we will repeat them?... It sounds like this is exactly what you want is it not?

Why re-invent the wheel?.... Because thats how new ideas are born.



-Nick Laffey
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Dave Altman
Administrator



Georgia
621 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  13:11:18  Show Profile  Visit Dave Altman's Homepage Send Dave Altman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Nick, I took out that line. It belonged in another tirade, although I think I could argue for not re-inventing a wheel, new ideas aren't born from giving us the same inventions, but coming up with new concepts, but, like I said, it didn't belong there.


"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something." ~ Plato
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Nick Laffey
Level 2



294 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  14:17:45  Show Profile  Send Nick Laffey an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I just think it would be much more interesting to see two groups of people determine how to get from point A to point B with no assistance than see two people get from point A to point B with prior knowledge of how its done, what is succesful.

I think the first group will most likely create more ideas/innovation. However the second group will probably be more succesfull. I think this can relate back to juggling. Some acts are very creative but sloppy whereas some will be polished but boring. I'll take the prior any day of the week, I think this is where the "art" comes into juggling.


-Nick Laffey

Edited by - Nick Laffey on 11/06/2007 14:19:19
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Sondre
Level 5



Norway
3549 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2007 :  04:25:28  Show Profile  Visit Sondre's Homepage  Send Sondre an AOL message  Click to see Sondre's MSN Messenger address  Send Sondre a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuchaMuggle

4. I know these guys, three brothers from Nanjing.



I believe that's Nanking. The Nanjing jugglers were not at all as impressive as these. They juggled jars anyway. So it was an extremely different act. I have a dvd quality recording of it if you want to see(oops, unauthorised distributing. I better not.).

No big deal with the name... but seeing as those guys aren't these guys, well.


I think it can be a little wrong to say that young jugglers, or young people, are ignorant all-knowing... uh, youngsters. First of all, it's obviously natural. So it's not their fault. Second, it's not everyone that actually does get to information. A guy I know who has been juggling for five years, will not be able to mention ONE juggler if you ask him. He has never seen a juggling video.

I think also that saying young jugglers don't watch those juggling videos can be a bit wrong. Remember that the jugglers that young jugglers talk about today, are not the old timers, Brunn, Cardenas, May etc. They talk about Dietz, Galchenko, etc - the jugglers that do what is popular now. If for some reason everyone started talking about old timers again, I am quite sure more young jugglers would know about them. Things such as the JugglePedia is a very good idea, if enough people will view it. It's also hard for young jugglers who have no clue, to appreciate the skill of old timers when they cannot see them in a video or live. Just hearing that "he was really good" doesn't amount to so much, if it's not very extensive informatio, but that isn't given on a regular basis.



Sondre

International Photo Caption Contest Champion,
October 3rd 2007
November 2nd 2007
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vaca36
Level 2



USA
442 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  09:15:45  Show Profile  Visit vaca36's Homepage Send vaca36 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Luke Burrage had that 8 racket flash and a 16 ring 3 person run on his web site back in 2002. I was amazed by their talent back then and I am now still.

--Joel Wires

I'm going to be a daddy!
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