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jared_plane
Level 2


Australia
408 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  00:58:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Which one do you believe, or think is the most logical?

Choices:

Creation
Evolution
Neither: On The Fence

(Anonymous Vote - Viewing results before voting will spoil your vote)

Edited by - jared_plane on 10/18/2006 01:00:25

ian smith
Level 2



United Kingdom
158 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  03:17:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evolution makes sense for what happened after the big bang. Couldn't tell you how we got stuff to bang, though.
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Lemonkey
Level 3



United Kingdom
901 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  04:54:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evolution.

[insert well thought out argument]

But alas, I don't have one, of what I've read of both creationism and evolution, evolution makes more sense to me.
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adennis
Level 4



USA
1367 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  06:42:47  Show Profile Send adennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I couldn't vote since there was not a "this is the dumbest question ever" choice. No matter what you believe there are many many more questions to ponder about the bible than this. Of all the dumb questions to ponder, why is this always the one people are interested in? What about the Tower of Babel vs. slow evolution of language for a good time wasting excercise? Are teachers who claim the english language has latin roots teaching against the bible? At least it would be original.

The most logical answer is to work on flashing 24 rings instead of thinking or arguing about this since it would be more productive.

Adam
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Jay
Level 2



United Kingdom
180 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  07:00:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adennis

I couldn't vote since there was not a "this is the dumbest question ever" choice. No matter what you believe there are many many more questions to ponder about the bible than this. Of all the dumb questions to ponder, why is this always the one people are interested in? What about the Tower of Babel vs. slow evolution of language for a good time wasting excercise? Are teachers who claim the english language has latin roots teaching against the bible? At least it would be original.

The most logical answer is to work on flashing 24 rings instead of thinking or arguing about this since it would be more productive.

Adam



lol erm, noone's argued about it? That said, I don't believe in a creator, because it would be frightfully arrogant to believe that some benevolent being favoured us above all others... and frightfully naive to believe that this being made an infinite universe for us, even though there is no chance of us ever exploring all of it.
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Dave Altman
Administrator



Georgia
621 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  08:32:37  Show Profile  Visit Dave Altman's Homepage Send Dave Altman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
DAVE: Well, maybe someone should start a poll on "Is the earth flat or round?" ;-) I agree with Adam, but I'm allowing myself to get sucked in. OK, here goes...ahhhhhhhhiiiii...[this is the sound of getting sucked down]

I'm guessing that Jared is the one that voted for Creation, since he started the poll. Most logical? Creation theory isn't logical at all, so Evolution is the only answer that makes sense to this poll. Even if you believe in Creation, it has to be faith based, not by logic. It defies logic and ignores scientific evidence. God as most of us "know" of that "being" was created in our image, not the other way around. I do believe in an "initial spark" that may be interpreted as a creator, superior being, God, etc. Like Jay said, can we know if this "initial spark" is benevolent? There seems to be great order in the universe. Einstein believed in a god. I like how he explained it, to paraphrase him. "Not believing in a god, is like putting all the pieces of a disassembled pocket watch in a box, shaking it up, and expecting to see a finished watch when you open the box."

I think the only logical answer to: "Is there a god?" "I don't know, but I think..." Good scientists, say, "This is what we think we know, so our best guess is..." Some religious people say, "This is true because I (the bible) says it's true, believe it or go to hell." I figure I'll die, and maybe I'll find out something I don't know and can't know on this plane, or I'll make good worm food and let future generations argue on what is or isn't true. Good luck figuring out the truth here or anywhere else. ;-)


Dave, a juggler
"You've got to go out on a limb sometimes because that's where the fruit is."~Will Rogers


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Leetsauce
Level 3



USA
534 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  09:27:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evolution.

You should look up a study that was done around 1959, several scientists put "primordial gases" (carbon and sulfur dioxide, among other things) Into a vaccuum tube, let it set for about a week, turned from clear to orange-ish, they examined it, and it had 16 of the 20 amino acids found on earth.

If these protein chains form from seemingly inanimate elements, there is no logical way to discount the theory of evolution.

Now, of course, we can reject our own logic system and then substitute another, but that's only if you really want to get technical.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what arguments I present, as most people will look at them and discount them no matter how solid they are. Clearly "It's true because it says so" is more believable than solid mathematical proof.

I should stop before I get seriously angry with religion/creationists.

---
We don't torture, we freedom tickle
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Mike Fisher
Level 3



USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  09:55:50  Show Profile  Send Mike Fisher a Yahoo! Message Send Mike Fisher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Adam as well. Creationism requires a leap of faith I'm just not ready to take. That being said I find it hard to believe that this life is all there is. I've had many discussions and or arguments with people of different faiths on these topics. Tolerance aside, they believe their religion is the right one. Religion is easy to dismiss when you’re young and think you'll live forever. Evolution, creationism, are all the different kinds of religions right or wrong or do you live your life hoping yours is the chosen religion? Then there’s the possibility as Dave said, we could all just be good worm food. That seems like such a waste.
The older I get the more I wonder…..Mike


-------------------------
The local weathermen are now on zanex and have assumed the fetal position!
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GLF
Level 3



USA
610 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  10:08:22  Show Profile  Visit GLF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Faith and Beliefs have to come in somwhere. Neither Creation or Evolution will satisfy every little "logical" question you have. In the end, you have to choose what to beleive. I believe in creation, and I accept the things I don't understand. Somthings are for only God to know.


~@~
Happy juggling,
GLF
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Mutton
Level 5

USA
2488 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  10:30:37  Show Profile  Visit Mutton's Homepage  Send Mutton an AOL message Send Mutton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't think evolution explained the creation of all life. I thought, like Ian said, that that was the big bang theory. So does that make this poll a vote for apples or oranges?


Andrew Gradisher
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Jay
Level 2



United Kingdom
180 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  11:36:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Altman

Einstein believed in a god. I like how he explained it, to paraphrase him. "Not believing in a god, is like putting all the pieces of a disassembled pocket watch in a box, shaking it up, and expecting to see a finished watch when you open the box."



:) Not entirely true lol, he was in fact persecuted in America on the basis that he completely denounced any existence of God, when he was supposed to be devoutly Jewish...
To quote Einstein:

quote:
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind

Which is one of the most misquoted of Einstein quotations, to which he responded;

quote:
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.


He also said:

quote:
I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion
(Einsteinian religion)

quote:
I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.


quote:
The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive.


And a little debate is healthy :) as long as we don't turn extremist.
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Dave Altman
Administrator



Georgia
621 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  12:19:34  Show Profile  Visit Dave Altman's Homepage Send Dave Altman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jay
...one of the most misquoted of Einstein quotations...

DAVE: I didn't say I quoted Einstein, but I paraphrased something he said, but here are a few quotes of Einstein on god:

Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
God always takes the simplest way.
God does not care about our mathematical difficulties. He integrates empirically.
God does not play dice.
God may be subtle, but he isn't malicious.
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation and is but a reflection of human frailty.
I want to know God's thoughts... the rest are details.
Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God.
When the solution is simple, God is answering.
That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.
All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.

His idea of God wasn't like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, or the Pope, but he seems to acknowledge something beyond ourselves. I'd be happy for you to correctly quote what Einstein really said, instead of my paraphase.


Dave, a juggler
"You've got to go out on a limb sometimes because that's where the fruit is."~Will Rogers


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Brett Sheets
Level 3

USA
500 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  15:53:51  Show Profile  Send Brett Sheets an AOL message Send Brett Sheets a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everyone with any sense in them knows we came from Mars.
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andrewg
Level 2



USA
468 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  18:23:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
" there is no logical way to discount the theory of evolution"

I dont understand why there aren't "half-beings" if evoultion is true.

Things dont just form from nothing, so my only reasoning is that there is a supernatural presence. which I beleive is a God.

Edited by - andrewg on 10/18/2006 18:26:09
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koenig1
Level 5



USA
2710 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  18:56:05  Show Profile  Visit koenig1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am catholic, I practice my faith regularly I go to church sunday, and yeah, I believe in evolution. I also believe in creationism. They are interconnected no matter what. First of all, yes there are many things that point to evolution being true. Fossils mummified remains, etc. I don't deny that there was probably millions of years of the earth being evolved and ruled by water animals dinosaurs etc. The reason I believe in creationism is because there is one thing that no one can explain: How did everything get here? Somethnig put the crap here that exploded and madeup the earth which we live on. Bottom line, Things evolve, we know that, but we have no way to explain how it all got here, so...
We should just not talk about it because it makes my brain hurt when I write well thought out responses.


Brian
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g.mac
Level 2



USA
477 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  19:09:35  Show Profile  Visit g.mac's Homepage Send g.mac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by koenig1
How did everything get here? Somethnig put the crap here that exploded and madeup the earth which we live on. Bottom line, Things evolve, we know that, but we have no way to explain how it all got here, so...



Why couldn't it have always been there?

(just playing devil's advocate)
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