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 Working out and Juggling
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Ivanpecel
Level 2

USA
251 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2005 :  14:44:51  Show Profile  Visit Ivanpecel's Homepage  Send Ivanpecel an AOL message  Send Ivanpecel a Yahoo! Message Send Ivanpecel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would like to discuss working out and juggling. For me, weight training is a huge part of juggling. It helps with longer runs, endurance, and makes you look great on stage. As there is an art to practicing correctly to get the maximum results out of juggling, there is also an art to weight training correctly to get the maximum results out of juggling. For me I have found that there are a number of exercises that benefit my juggling ability, and a number that hinder my juggling ability. If you work out correctly and consistantly you will notice results very quickly. Eating correctly also helps but that is a completely different subject, so let's just stick with weights. When working out, you have a set routine that you do, ultimately you want to build every muscle group in your body so that they will enlarge on a consistant basis. If you were to work out just your chest and bicepts... you would end up with nice looking bicepts and chest... but scronny chicken legs and weak shoulders. So you want to attempt to work every muscle group consistantly. So you have been working out for a year now and you are getting pretty big... your juggling is better than ever... then you hit a point where you are too big... your juggling becomes hindered. For instance, I have been weight training since high school... so about 6 years now... I find that when I work out my lats on a regular basis, baackcrosses become almost impossible. So I have to structure my workouts to where I don't go as heavy on my lats, but still work them out slightly so as to keep the cut. Also, if your legs get to big, it makes pirouetting a little harder. The main exercises that I have found that help my juggling ability and don't hinder me are: My forearms, shoulders, bicepts, tricepts, abs, and calves.
It is my belief that a serious juggler should train with waits and make that part of his practice regime. Also, trying to practice after you work out is a disaster... so i try to seperate the two. Practice in the morning, work out in the evening... maybe a little cardio in the morning before I practice. To me this is so helpful in juggling, plus you look great on stage.
Let's discuss different methods of working out to get the most results out of juggling.

marcobonisimo
Level 1

Netherlands
37 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2005 :  16:40:22  Show Profile  Visit marcobonisimo's Homepage Send marcobonisimo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do agree on the basis of your theory. As a performer it is important to be healthy (to eat well, sleep enough...) and to look good (or at least a little exceptional anyhow), but I have some doubts about weight training. As you said, it is hard to combine with juggling.
I used to be an athlete (track and field) and I used to do a lot of weight lifting. I still have some profits of it , but besides I was to tired afterwards to do anything else, it takes away a lot of your smoothness. Juggling is still a fine art, and you have to move a little like a dancer somehow (even if you're not dancing at all in your up tempo eleven club routine). I mean, from the ordinary fitness, I have the feeling to become to slow. And the more powerbased weightlifting, like for sprinting, feels useless, because you only train your powerboosting ability, which would mean my clubs would go through the roof..
I do a little hand to hand acrobalance, because it is fun, but even this feels terrible for my juggling. But this is in the short run, may be in the long run it turns out to be really good. I think however, that I will never touch weights again. Although, that doesn't make the cleaning in my house easier, because I have a complete weight lifting set standing in my living room, only used by a friend who often comes to visit...
Anyway, good luck with the work outs and hope you get a lot of benefit from it. And off coarse Ivan: a happy marriage, sounds great all those changes. Ciao, Marco
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anthonygatto
Forum Admin



USA
4280 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2005 :  19:23:15  Show Profile  Visit anthonygatto's Homepage Send anthonygatto a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it would depend on the type of juggling you are performing. As you all probably know I maintain some serious long runs with the higher numbers so for me it is definitely beneficial. Now, if you are someone like Michael Moschen who focus more on flexibility and dance sort of choreography I think it could be a hindrance.

I do believe that the over all best thing for juggling in running. I don't mean a light little jog I mean at a good pace around 8 minute mile. Sergei Ignatow used to run every for at least 5 or more miles. Ironically when we worked together in Berlin in 1983 he used to ditch the K.G.B. on his jog and meet my father and Karl-Heinz to watch juggling videos. Anyway You must be able to run at a good pace at least for the duration of your act.

My weight training has changed over the years. I used to take it way to seriously and around 1995 I was way to big to be an accurate juggler. Remember weight slows you down. I eat correctly and keep a sharp eye on my weight. I am now almost 32 and I way less that I have since I was 16 but I look much better as you can see the muscle development. I am now at 136lbs. and I feel incredibly fast and I think this is an asset to juggling. Now my whole workout outside of juggling is less than an hour. I train chest (for the wife ) deltoids, triceps and back. For the legs I run and train with the soccer ball. I don't do any biceps at all however they do develop from juggling and pull-ups.

A.G.
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adennis
Level 4



USA
1367 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2005 :  23:51:49  Show Profile Send adennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mr. Gatto,

You mentioned soccer ball practice as part of your leg workout which I did not expect. It makes me wonder if you find ring spinning to be a good workout for your legs as well.

Thanks for the time you've taken to post.

Adam
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anthonygatto
Forum Admin



USA
4280 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2005 :  12:55:47  Show Profile  Visit anthonygatto's Homepage Send anthonygatto a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Adam,

I really don't think you could get too much out of ring spinning unless you are doing long runs and varied angles. What I mean is if you are say juggling three balls and spinning a ring on your leg behind you and you do this for thirty seconds I can't see it accomplishing much. Now if you are spinning a ring on you leg behind you for 5 minutes then in front for five minutes then to the side for five minutes you will benefit. Also the soccer ball has you running around like a mad man and it weighs a bit more than a ring so your legs get a good workout. There are some great leg exercises that you can do without any weight laying on the floor and lifting them in a pulsing manner at different angles. When my wife was training for her aerial act her coach made her do these for a straight 45 minutes and sometimes with ankle weights. She got incredible results with this.

A.G.


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Tyler
Level 1

Canada
90 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2005 :  19:31:41  Show Profile  Visit Tyler's Homepage  Send Tyler an AOL message Send Tyler a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I personally think that a finely toned body, and good distribution of muscle is best, along with the finesse and strength to not have to stop often. I couldn't imagine being the size of Jason Garfield, and still manage to fit my arms past my body!

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tylerdawson@juggler.net
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NikGoodrich
Level 4



USA
1124 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2005 :  14:59:23  Show Profile Send NikGoodrich a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ivan,

I don't think that working out and then juggling is a bad idea. Immediately after you worked out, yes, but later on in the day I don't think it is. I weight lift in my first hour class and then right after school I head to the gym to practice for a couple of hours and I get way longer runs with 8 and 9 balls then I would have if I didn't lift at all that day. I agree with practicing in the morning, I go up to my school at 5 am and practice until school starts because that is when I have my most energy.

Nik Goodrich

Come play me on Halo 2 sometime.
Gamertag:SweetCheeks5432
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pieland
Level 2



USA
293 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  18:46:18  Show Profile  Send pieland an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I prefer the Jack LeLane approach to working out to help juggling among other things. For those who do not know who Jack is, he is the "juicer" guy who helped popularize muscle beach in California in the 40's. He broke many world records for stamina including swimming while towing a canoe with his hands tied behind his back. He recently turned 90 and is in great shape. My point is that unless your going to juggle heavy bowling balls, stamina is really the most important. Strength will come from thorough exercise i.e. push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, running, swimming, etc.
Josiah Jones and I spoke about weight training and he said he fears not being able to do his really flexible routines. Similar to Ivan's massive lat problem. All in all, I think that extra weight (muscle or not) is dead weight.
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eyesonly
Level 2

United Kingdom
367 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  19:31:10  Show Profile Send eyesonly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think weight training is necessary for juggling, but it can certainly help.
I train usually every other day a rotating cycle of chest+biceps/back+forearms/shoulders+triceps with abs every training session.
I usually juggle before weight training, but in the summer i'll likely swop around when it's lighter at night.

The only time i've noticed a weight training workout hinder my juggling is right after training forearms, and sometimes with shoulders - longer runs with balls are affected and my shoulders start to ache quick.

Since improving my upper body strength i've noticed my technique improve, i find i'm keeping my elbows further out from the body, but i'm not sure if this is just coincidence of improving technique or not.

i used to experience some slight back ache from time to time before i started weight training, but since building up some muscle around that area it's helped my general posture a lot and cured that problem.

Either way weight training (as long as you don't go over the top) is good for you as a person and certainly wont hold you back!

The most important thing is eating right - weight training without good diet is a bad idea, and wont help you at all.

Richard

Edited by - eyesonly on 01/01/2006 19:33:28
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anthonygatto
Forum Admin



USA
4280 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  19:31:45  Show Profile  Visit anthonygatto's Homepage Send anthonygatto a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It really depends on what type of juggling you do. If you want to have very fluid moves like Michael Motion and flexibility like Francis then working out to build muscle would probably not be the best thing. If you want to be able to keep the high numbers going for extended periods of time like myself then it is highly beneficial. I feel that my body has developed to a point that the smaller movement or fluid 3 ball work would be difficult for me. Now, high number tricks that require strength... well, you have seen what I do. I think I would never in a million years be able to keep 7 clubs going for 4 minutes if I didn't work out.

A.G.
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eyesonly
Level 2

United Kingdom
367 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  19:42:55  Show Profile Send eyesonly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've found that after a period of muscle building, my juggling stamina might drop a little, and then it takes a short time to get that stamina back plus keep the strength. Because of all the juggling it takes me a while to go up in weight on the training.

If people want to do long runs of anything they have to increase muscle efficiency and the best way to do that is some form of training.

I'm guessing 7 clubs for 4 minutes must be a real killer, my arms are tired after that long with 4!



Richard
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mastamax911
Level 4



USA
1222 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  20:38:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is it true that if you were to juggling really big beanbags, like the extra large sport juggling balls, that you would gain anything?
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michael chirrick
Level 2



137 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  20:48:25  Show Profile  Visit michael chirrick's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Ive got to agree with Anthony.I can see where building up would be good for juggling numbers but,if your interested in any type of juggling where you have to bend alot or
put your body in odd positions forget about weights.To big is no good.Ball work,stick and ball,
3 little balls,cigar boxes,etc....Your never going to reach your potential if your to big.You want to stay tone,and slim.Runnings great for stamina and legs,basic pushups and situps are all you need.I dont even think that being big looks good on stage..........Baryshnikovs body looked good on stage.
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NFS
Level 1



USA
43 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2006 :  21:24:13  Show Profile  Send NFS an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Anthony,

What would you recommend for younger people? I am only 14 years old and I am wondering if this would be a deciding factor in a juggling-based workout regime.

Much Obliged,
NFS

A cynic knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing...
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dquest
Level 2



USA
108 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2006 :  10:43:21  Show Profile  Visit dquest's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My Master in Martial arts once told me something pretty interesting about running a Martial Arts Biz...
He said, Daniel, if you ever want to attract clients, you need to be fit. Think about it, as a client would you go to a martial arts instructor that has a huge beer gut or one that is fit and can move quickly?
I think the same point can be made about juggling. I remember in 1992 when I got my first juggling vid "to be the best" with anthony. My dad said "Holy Cow look at the mucles on that guy!" Then he said something to the effect that juggling on that level must require a lot of muscle. My overall point is that having a good body adds credibility to your presentation. You can be overweight and flexible, you can even be ripped and flexible... but who is really going to give you the respect?

As for weight training... I recomend the Arnold book... the bible. I have been working off of that for some time and droped over 50 pounds. I think it gives me more credibility. I know I will never look like Michael... I just have a frame that is too huge for that.
-Daniel
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n/a
deleted

3206 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2006 :  11:02:53  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dquest

I remember in 1992 when I got my first juggling vid "to be the best" with anthony. My dad said "Holy Cow look at the mucles on that guy!"
-Daniel

Your sure it wasn't one of Jason Garfield's videos? Jason's videos were the first I ever saw.

SpongebobSquarepants
WJF3
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